tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post1987415020123457822..comments2024-03-24T20:13:39.387+00:00Comments on demography.matters.blog: Matt Carr on Reflections on the Revolution in EuropeUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-27102269664248104972009-08-04T05:32:37.209+00:002009-08-04T05:32:37.209+00:00I will say another thing. I agree with you both (...I will say another thing. I agree with you both (I'm sure) in saying that the 'pierced navel, casual sex, emotionally diffident' narrative of liberal Europe is nonsense, or at best greatly overstated. I wouldn't want to defend Caldwell on that.johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494900535568793755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-91133678649195830082009-08-04T05:26:57.075+00:002009-08-04T05:26:57.075+00:00Randy,
Look, just from the review it looks like C...Randy,<br /><br />Look, just from the review it looks like Caldwell did get a number of facts wrong. And sure, I'm not saying 'facts, schmacts'. What I mean is that the assertions refuted in the review are embarrassingly low level and detachable elements of the case against Muslim immigration in Europe. The case goes something like this: 7/7,3/11, Theo Van Gogh, honor killings, johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494900535568793755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-86155839718339817972009-08-04T04:16:52.791+00:002009-08-04T04:16:52.791+00:00"Like the defendant accused of killing his pa..."Like the defendant accused of killing his parents and the family dog, he triumphantly produces a living dog to refute the charges."<br /><br />Caldwell identified migrants as a whole, the Sudanese migrants described in Carr's essay in particular, as people willingly becoming dependents on Europe and as bogus petitioners for refugee status. What actually happened is that the Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-24106102854962772432009-08-02T21:55:54.796+00:002009-08-02T21:55:54.796+00:00John,
First, thanks for using a nick. It's alw...John,<br />First, thanks for using a nick. It's always a better to have a name.<br /><br />I do think we agree on a lot of things. I think that initially Europe got a lot of things wrong about, but I think we really have seen European governments clamp down on unacceptable practices. Immigrants do tend to become more conservative than people in their home country but I think that over time Aslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-9355589076887543252009-08-01T16:42:42.772+00:002009-08-01T16:42:42.772+00:00'Anonymous' here.
Randy,
You're rig...'Anonymous' here.<br /><br />Randy, <br /><br />You're right, 'parasite' makes but one appearance in the piece. But for scurrilousness, this one is at least as good:<br /><br />If Muslims should not prove 'assimilable' then what should be done with them? The nuanced observer does not say, but he does not need to, when so many others are saying it for him.<br /><br />johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494900535568793755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-83356264559102046642009-08-01T13:32:40.204+00:002009-08-01T13:32:40.204+00:00I think everybody agrees that extremists are a pro...I think everybody agrees that extremists are a problem. However, the problem is that in the post-9/11 climate, Muslims are increasingly being defined in the media and in public debate by their extremists and not by the vast majority that does not subscribe to that. <br /><br />As for the demographic issue, the NY Times review suggested that Caldwell at least partially subscribes to that, but to Aslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-32104510384819508212009-08-01T13:18:27.078+00:002009-08-01T13:18:27.078+00:00Multiple uses of parasite? I found only one.
&quo...Multiple uses of parasite? I found only one.<br /><br />"This background does not fit with Caldwell's depiction of asylum seekers as devious parasites in search of the softest touch and the country with the best welfare system."<br /><br />This related to, incidentally, his portrayal of a Sudanese protest in Egypt asking for resettlement elsewhere as an economic migration, as Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-88098586878672949282009-08-01T12:59:34.594+00:002009-08-01T12:59:34.594+00:00Randy, one hint is Carr's repeated use of the ...Randy, one hint is Carr's repeated use of the word 'parasite' to characterize Caldwell's views. Needless to say, no quotes on that. It's a way of saying "C. is a fascist dehumanizer of Muslims" without having to support it. As well as the _complete_ lack of acknowledgment that there's _any_ problem to speak of. 7/7? Nothing to see here...<br /><br />Aslak, Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-46675188467767581362009-07-31T19:35:58.087+00:002009-07-31T19:35:58.087+00:00"I haven't read Caldwell's book, but ..."I haven't read Caldwell's book, but that review has all the tell-tale signs of a hatchet job"<br /><br />You can tell this without reading the book how?Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1179821418184003862009-07-31T19:24:39.187+00:002009-07-31T19:24:39.187+00:00Anonymous, you're absolutely right that there ...Anonymous, you're absolutely right that there are certain cultural practices that are completely unacceptable in Europe (and elsewhere, for that matter). The Somali community that Hirsi Ali comes from is sadly afflicted with several of those. But that is different from saying that the Muslims are taking over Europe.<br /><br />What bothers me about the Eurabia theorists are two things: One, Aslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-57713640368412865212009-07-31T16:42:30.247+00:002009-07-31T16:42:30.247+00:00I haven't read Caldwell's book, but that r...I haven't read Caldwell's book, but that review has all the tell-tale signs of a hatchet job: twisting the author's arguments and tendentiously choosing its evidence.<br /><br />And as for the reviewer's rogues' gallery of nutcases, Mark Steyn is doubtless a twit and a demagogue, but Hirsi Ali, really? I'd say her career and life story are good evidence that there's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-41640482614821944782009-07-30T23:30:21.689+00:002009-07-30T23:30:21.689+00:00Patung, I don't think that was supposed to be ...Patung, I don't think that was supposed to be a contradiction. Rather, those are examples of the kind of superficial, tenuous arguments that form the basis of his thesis. But then, you'd know that if you read the review.Aslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-57016490937595595472009-07-30T22:22:44.636+00:002009-07-30T22:22:44.636+00:00"One minute Caldwell is suggesting that immig..."One minute Caldwell is suggesting that immigrants share a puritanical aversion to Europe's depraved sexual mores that might make them reluctant to integrate. The next he is explaining that 'Europe's Third World immigrants, and particularly its Muslims' might not undergo the 'same demographic transition that their Western hosts did' and have smaller families, because Patunghttp://www.indonesiamatters.com/contact-us/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-3224629326441615602009-07-30T17:54:10.233+00:002009-07-30T17:54:10.233+00:00You can find Islamist extremists if you look for t...You can find Islamist extremists if you look for them, but that doesn't mean they're representative of Muslims in general, much less all of those who come from Muslim countries, since a substantial portion are not religious.<br /><br />Immigrants do have higher crime rates, but that has often been the case. Note that it's not 85% of rapes committed but 85% of people convicted for rapeAslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-85428840790864591592009-07-30T17:40:20.915+00:002009-07-30T17:40:20.915+00:00Indeed, there was (and is) Italian mafia, there we...Indeed, there was (and is) Italian mafia, there were Irish Molly Maguires. <br /><br />But I do believe the situation is worse in e.g. contemporary Britain. It's not ethnic differences that matter, but cultural differences. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-404525/Threat-million-Muslim-terrorists-warns-community-leader.html Note the picture. <br /><br />An interesting graph on Miacekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06272409941034494173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-55772122741785963162009-07-30T16:58:41.330+00:002009-07-30T16:58:41.330+00:00It's like a game of whack-a-mole, you knock on...It's like a game of whack-a-mole, you knock one Eurabia-theorist down and another one just pops up. Some ugly xenophobic parts of the European right and certain American conservatives that sees Europe as the epitome of leftism run amok and therefore doomed to fail have entered a kind of unholy alliance that keeps this thing going.<br /><br />Europe certainly has its problems with integratingAslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.com