tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post116544276830477798..comments2024-03-24T20:13:39.387+00:00Comments on demography.matters.blog: Fertility, Patriarchy, and PoliticsUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1166349502156240172006-12-17T09:58:00.000+00:002006-12-17T09:58:00.000+00:00Robert:"If all this is demonstrable, then it might...Robert:<BR/><BR/>"If all this is demonstrable, then it might be demonstrable that the longstanding correlation between growing new religious movements and the general culture of migration in the US has produced the correlation between religious practice and fertility, which can be measured at least among certain religious groups in the US,"<BR/><BR/>It only just dawned on me, the argument which Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431230172942198078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1166108080991633852006-12-14T14:54:00.000+00:002006-12-14T14:54:00.000+00:00Robert,"If all this is demonstrable, then it might...Robert,<BR/><BR/>"If all this is demonstrable, then it might be demonstrable that the longstanding correlation between growing new religious movements and the general culture of migration in the US has produced the correlation between religious practice and fertility,"<BR/><BR/>Well what we can certainly say is that there is something about US culture which is very propitious to the development Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431230172942198078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1166107021433256362006-12-14T14:37:00.000+00:002006-12-14T14:37:00.000+00:00Here's another version of the same sort of simplis...Here's <A HREF="http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/2472" REL="nofollow">another version of the same sort of simplistic approach</A>, this time from the foreign policy blog. This time its another of the worn and tried runners, children out of wedlock (this was the UN demographer Bongaart's big 'discovery' in the late 1990s.<BR/><BR/>From Foreign policy:<BR/><BR/>"A closer look at the map reveals Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431230172942198078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1166106627283795672006-12-14T14:30:00.000+00:002006-12-14T14:30:00.000+00:00Randy,Well Sterling would probably mention Utah an...Randy,<BR/><BR/>Well Sterling would probably mention Utah and Idaho, but since I know next to nothing about either of these I have little to say. I am sure there are examples and counter examples of everything.<BR/><BR/>"At any rate, the survival of conservatism and liberalism both in France over the 20th century negates Longman's thesis."<BR/><BR/>Well I would have thought that lots of things Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431230172942198078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1166105653129632982006-12-14T14:14:00.000+00:002006-12-14T14:14:00.000+00:00Colin,"I don't know if any of what I said stands u...Colin,<BR/><BR/>"I don't know if any of what I said stands up to the data"<BR/><BR/>Yes, I think it does in many ways. Fertility can either be discouraged by a hostile working environment/labour market, or by an unfriendly domestic one. Those countries who have the very lowest fertility often have a combination of both these.<BR/><BR/>This argument is advanced by the Australian demographer Peter Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431230172942198078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1166096136097737032006-12-14T11:35:00.000+00:002006-12-14T11:35:00.000+00:00Here's a theory as to how in Europe, more progress...Here's a theory as to how in Europe, more progressive societies can end up with higher fertility than more conservative ones:<BR/><BR/>Many parts of the world have seen a drop in fertility coincide with a decline in gender roles. However, where gender roles have declined, they have not done so uniformly. One can split this process into two parts: firstly, women taking on traditionally male Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165856661073719232006-12-11T17:04:00.000+00:002006-12-11T17:04:00.000+00:00...mightn't it be a better approach to examine wha...<I>...mightn't it be a better approach to examine what is specific about religion and fertility in the US (US exceptionalism), rather than trying to build a general theory from what - in fertility terms - is undoubtedly an outlier.</I><BR/><BR/>Although fertility is not at all a concern of this book, if you are interested into looking into this aspect of US exceptionalism, may I recommend Finke Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165849595538199272006-12-11T15:06:00.000+00:002006-12-11T15:06:00.000+00:00Agreed. Are there examples of successful conservat...<I>Agreed. Are there examples of successful conservative "closed" areas?</I><BR/><BR/>This might be a chicken-and-egg question of sorts. If a region became economically successful, how could it possibly remain "closed"? Economic growth attracts in-migration and investment, and these will have transformative effects on the local culture, unless perhaps the local culture has a large diaspora thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165708801851546402006-12-10T00:00:00.000+00:002006-12-10T00:00:00.000+00:00Edward:"Randy mentions Brittany, I could mention t...Edward:<BR/><BR/>"Randy mentions Brittany, I could mention the Basque Country and Galicia in Spain, or Sardinia and Sicily in Italy where fertility is now very low indeed, but where the relative 'closedness' of the culture means that inward investment (and migrants) don't arrive, so the more educated young people need to out-migrate, thus driving down the number of live births even further."<BR/>Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165666007006031392006-12-09T12:06:00.000+00:002006-12-09T12:06:00.000+00:00Hi,A number of interesting issues:Colin:"The troub...Hi,<BR/><BR/>A number of interesting issues:<BR/><BR/>Colin:<BR/><BR/>"The trouble with using genetic natural selection to explain the evolution of cultures is that culture doesn't propagate like genes."<BR/><BR/>Absolutely, and of course genes (post the analysis of the genome) also don't propagate like we used to think they did.<BR/><BR/>There has been a whole revolution in the area of genetics Adminhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07431230172942198078noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165627938024358782006-12-09T01:32:00.000+00:002006-12-09T01:32:00.000+00:00The trouble with using genetic natural selection t...The trouble with using genetic natural selection to explain the evolution of cultures is that culture doesn't propagate like genes. Children don't simply 'inherit' their parents' culture - the parents wield enormous influence, but that doesn't necessarily mean their children will agree with them in the long term, given competing sources of culture and the desire for independence from one's Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165533129269689822006-12-07T23:12:00.000+00:002006-12-07T23:12:00.000+00:00In the case of France, where traditionally conserv...In the case of France, where traditionally conservative regions like Brittany have had with <A HREF="http://www.insee.fr/fr/insee_regions/Bretagne/rfc/docs/O80_p4.pdf" REL="nofollow">higher rates of completed fertility</A> than other, more non-conservative regions, shouldn't Longman's thesis have already been tested? The overall trajectory of 20th century France has been away from, not towards, Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-1165457691061268672006-12-07T02:14:00.000+00:002006-12-07T02:14:00.000+00:00I would have thought the causes of low fertility r...I would have thought the causes of low fertility rates are high female literacy combined with low levels of religious belief. Has this been something already discussed on this site?Patunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05281710045534187016noreply@blogger.com