tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post1614865717333652321..comments2024-03-18T10:37:36.738+00:00Comments on demography.matters.blog: Liberal economics and replacement-level fertility: Are they contradictory?Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-3042157789349473972011-02-03T23:26:26.436+00:002011-02-03T23:26:26.436+00:00If high inflation wipes out the value of savings a...If high inflation wipes out the value of savings accounts, and Social Security and Medicare go bankrupt, the Duggar family, and other families with large numbers of well-brought-up children, will still have a decent retirement. A little money or free labor from each of 20 children will go a long way for people like the Duggars who don't spend much on clothes or food.<br /><br />I saw a studyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-23247138860153060222009-07-30T16:34:19.808+00:002009-07-30T16:34:19.808+00:00Outland ''I came to this conclusion, from ...Outland ''I came to this conclusion, from a different angle, because I was convinced by the conservative argument that a society needs order, structure, institutions before liberalism (especially post-60s left-liberalism) can allow relaxation of autority. In countries like Somalia, I doubt a left-liberal Dutch system would be a good thing.''<br /><br />I fully agree with you. Miacekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06272409941034494173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-88431015421990754992009-07-28T10:26:51.185+00:002009-07-28T10:26:51.185+00:00This post is a copy of the other
Well I'm 32....This post is a copy of the other<br /><br />Well I'm 32.... so I have those 30 years.<br /><br />Very few of my peers have children. I think the Boston Globe article I noted on teenage suicide, that treating children as trophies isn't a good idea. I've taken a radically differing view of parenting from my parents, in a good way I think my parents see how the trend of 'trophy Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-42209233546270848142009-07-28T01:49:06.207+00:002009-07-28T01:49:06.207+00:00The bragging rights come when the children are adu...The bragging rights come when the children are adult so ask your kids in 30 yearsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-61867839488296994912009-07-27T23:51:20.672+00:002009-07-27T23:51:20.672+00:00"That is there main purpose and that is why i..."That is there main purpose and that is why it is better to have two high performing than ten average performing let alone one bad apple (which is more likely with ten)"<br /><br /><br />I'm not disagreeing with your observation, but if children are about performance and bragging rights does anyone ask what the children think of this?Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-44444291017474982402009-07-27T22:53:32.952+00:002009-07-27T22:53:32.952+00:00Renee,
Children, and what they achieve are a sym...Renee,<br /><br />Children, and what they achieve are a symbol of status. The higher the status of the child the higher the status of the parent. That is there main purpose and that is why it is better to have two high performing than ten average performing let alone one bad apple (which is more likely with ten)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-41692272622036686742009-07-27T16:16:43.851+00:002009-07-27T16:16:43.851+00:00con't
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While newborns and preschool...con't<br /><br />---------<br /><br />While newborns and preschoolers are cute, I think people reject having children because they turn into teenagers. <br /><br /><a href="http://paulgraham.com/nerds.html" rel="nofollow">A very personal article/observation from Paul Graham (lower half)</a><br /><br />"Now adults have no immediate use for teenagers. They would be in the way in an office.Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-38722069061672138742009-07-27T16:16:15.308+00:002009-07-27T16:16:15.308+00:00It's hard for professional women to ramp up a ...It's hard for professional women to ramp up a project and leave for three months at a time.I know in the legal field there is talk about transitioning, which helps. I know in Massachusetts have transition seminars not just for women, but men who may have not practiced law for some time. Making professional continuing education more common place would benefit would benefit everyone, my husbandReneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-58691935775055592122009-07-27T14:51:37.138+00:002009-07-27T14:51:37.138+00:00Perhaps I should add that cases such as yourself i...Perhaps I should add that cases such as yourself is the exception rather than the rule -there simply aren't enough women like you in most societies that are willing to stay at home much beyond their maternity leave (in countries that have those), to achieve a reasonable level of overall fertility. The majority of people want it all, or perhaps at least "some of it all", so I think Aslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-5566805892124612672009-07-27T14:45:39.029+00:002009-07-27T14:45:39.029+00:00Renee, I think that what you said here is actually...Renee, I think that what you said here is actually very important:<br /><br />"While there are many factors, but the main one I would put my finger on is that people just don't think about it one way or the other, because they are occupied and distracted with other things."<br /><br />This blog tends to focus on the economical perspective, but there are so many other factors that Aslakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05813371594062969329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-25609006816415650312009-07-27T12:47:01.808+00:002009-07-27T12:47:01.808+00:00Just wanted to chime in. I've been reading thi...Just wanted to chime in. I've been reading this blog for a few months now and enjoying. Not an expert, but definitely an oddity. I live in Lowell Massachusetts with four children. <br /><br />I never expected as a teenager or even in college to be a stay at home mother or having more then the ideal two. Growing up one doesn't really think about marriage and family, you spend most of one&#Reneehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03852754398007790428noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-2518738633946546002009-07-27T08:45:57.407+00:002009-07-27T08:45:57.407+00:00That is not the point. Ceaucescu had "pro-na...That is not the point. Ceaucescu had "pro-natal" policies*) that make those of Vatican City look liberal and it's TFR at the time was only 4.<br /><br /><br /><br />*) I would be really surprised if teaching the calender method was legal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-56812031873853800852009-07-26T23:16:18.499+00:002009-07-26T23:16:18.499+00:00@ Outland:
"Anyway, I don't believe libe...@ Outland:<br /><br />"Anyway, I don't believe liberal economics are the main culprit here. They may be an ingredient in the whole soup of factors, but hardly the silver bullit."<br /><br />Not the silver bullet, perhaps, but the kind of individualism associated with the primacy of a consumer's needs _does_ contribute notably, by making children just another economic option.<br Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-34772981968271809642009-07-26T15:31:36.281+00:002009-07-26T15:31:36.281+00:00J,
France had a low TFR in the 1930's. The pi...J,<br /><br />France had a low TFR in the 1930's. The pill didn't exist then. The pill is only recently made legal in Japan and is still not the major anti-conception methode. I think this is enough to discredit your thesis that fertility decline is a direct consequence of the pill.<br /><br />ps. Ceausescu's Romania TFR wasn't that high considering its anti anticonception Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-74305859579013669672009-07-26T10:40:55.392+00:002009-07-26T10:40:55.392+00:00Hi Outland,
"That's true to a point. It ...Hi Outland,<br /><br />"That's true to a point. It doesn't hold up for entrepreneurs, leaders and innovators, who help society improve (selfish gene principle: they work for the good of the group.)"<br /><br />I fully accept. But I did say "can", not must. Obviously many entrepreneurs, leaders and innovators contribute a great deal to society, and not always for self Edward Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384039867580949531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-58451914760446525022009-07-26T09:28:35.414+00:002009-07-26T09:28:35.414+00:00"You can't have freedom to exercise witho..."You can't have freedom to exercise without a society in which to exercise it." <br /><br />This is why I dropped libertarianism a few years ago. <br /><br />I came to this conclusion, from a different angle, because I was convinced by the conservative argument that a society needs order, structure, institutions before liberalism (especially post-60s left-liberalism) can allow Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-57725986196590945452009-07-26T09:19:12.913+00:002009-07-26T09:19:12.913+00:00Hi Outland,
"Is there any chance that one o...Hi Outland, <br /><br />"Is there any chance that one of the writers here, could make a table with all the different factors decreasing fertility, by naming the recorded correlations from studies? I've at least seen a dozen factors named already the last few years; increased women's education and work participation, waning religiosity and patriarchy, availability abortion, etc., etc.CVhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16843402165210120665noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-53480447552113843232009-07-26T09:17:23.160+00:002009-07-26T09:17:23.160+00:00"Same thing goes for fertility. There is now ..."Same thing goes for fertility. There is now automatic homeostatic correction mechanism. As I am pointing out to another commentator, take away the institutional support of a modern functioning economy as we are seeing in Ukraine and Latvia, and fertility simply collapses. This is very different to a pre moden society with a Malthusian type regime like Ethiopia or Afghanistan."<br /><brAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-21839467069146013062009-07-26T08:32:18.220+00:002009-07-26T08:32:18.220+00:00Hi,
"I've been reading up on fertility d...Hi,<br /><br />"I've been reading up on fertility declines for quite some time, but I've always thought that there are many, many different poltical, sociological, economical factors involved, setting up different kinds of changes, hitting different kinds of people in different ways."<br /><br />I think you are right, there are many different factors, and free market economics (Edward Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384039867580949531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-511873360399858312009-07-26T07:56:07.562+00:002009-07-26T07:56:07.562+00:00I'm a bit surprised at this blogpost to be fai...I'm a bit surprised at this blogpost to be fair. <br /><br />I've been reading up on fertility declines for quite some time, but I've always thought that there are many, many different poltical, sociological, economical factors involved, setting up different kinds of changes, hitting different kinds of people in different ways.<br /><br />Liberal economic policies may hurt the middle Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-51310437578577375222009-07-26T07:44:52.627+00:002009-07-26T07:44:52.627+00:00"what Hans Hoppe says is that if the governme..."what Hans Hoppe says is that if the government totally eliminated regulation of the private sector and support to those who could not work, then there would be much more incentive to have children as a form of social insurance."<br /><br />As I say, watch carefully what happens next in Latvia and Ukraine, two countries where this dystopian experiment is being conducted before our very Edward Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384039867580949531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-28458411577285805622009-07-26T07:42:38.388+00:002009-07-26T07:42:38.388+00:00"[E]liminating all public welfare and incenti..."[E]liminating all public welfare and incentives for women to enter the labour market"<br /><br />Well, this is effectively the experiment that is being run in Latvia now, and as I am charting on my Latvia blog, fertility is plummeting. So are these sort of ideas available to empirical testing, or are they just dogmas?Edward Hughhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10384039867580949531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-3691544267855473352009-07-26T07:10:33.302+00:002009-07-26T07:10:33.302+00:00Randy,
what Hans Hoppe says is that if the govern...Randy,<br /><br />what Hans Hoppe says is that if the government <i>totally</i> eliminated regulation of the private sector and support to those who could not work, then there would be much more incentive to have children as a form of social insurance.<br /><br />People like Hoppe believe that the cost of children would fall <i>dramatically</i> if farm subsidies and zoning which make housing jpbenneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02664829103165280260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-44443744297382441192009-07-26T06:17:17.958+00:002009-07-26T06:17:17.958+00:00Edward:
"But then we still have variance at ...Edward:<br /><br />"But then we still have variance at the decision level between countries."<br /><br />And within countries, too. Canada comes to mind. I'm not talking about Québec, which now has one of the highest TFRs in Canada at ~1.65--higher than the national average for the first time since 1959~-but about internal variations within English Canada, ranging from a Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-19949676.post-5250098564411786612009-07-26T06:15:20.050+00:002009-07-26T06:15:20.050+00:00"[E]liminating all public welfare and incenti..."[E]liminating all public welfare and incentives for women to enter the labour market (e.g. minimum wage, child labour and anti-discrimination laws) would restore fertility even in industrialised cities to levels observed in agricultural societies."<br /><br />I'm very skeptical of that. Assuming that women _did_ lose their jobs in large numbers, they'd suffer immediate hits in Randy McDonaldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04707497864911987241noreply@blogger.com